Storytelling lessons from ABC’s Leigh Sales
As it was at SHAPE 2022, with the creator of You Can’t Ask That, Kirk Docker it was a television professional who took us back to the fundamentals of our job at SHAPE 2025.
Closing the program on day one this year was ABC presenter and journalist, Leigh Sales, one of Australia’s most respected media professionals, with her presentation, Storytellers.
At the core of every great recruiter is a storyteller. The very best recruiters aren’t looking to match people to jobs; they are looking to help a candidate fulfill a career ambition, no matter how bold or modest it may be. These recruiters are also looking to help hiring managers by crafting a compelling narrative about the opportunity their vacancy offers.
Sales shared how she approached her job as a journalist and interviewer to maximise the originality, relevance and impact of the stories she was seeking to bring out of her subjects, whether they be the prime minister, a rock music legend, or somebody less well known who still had something she wanted to understand and explore.
The key points Sales shared are all entirely applicable to how recruiters can build their storytelling skills.
Put in the work: The best journalists prepare thoroughly so they can ask the best questions and extract the storytelling gold from the subject. A superb example of this preparation is brilliantly captured in the Netflix movie, Scoop, that documents the events leading up to the (now) infamous 2019 BBC Newsnight interview between journalist Emily Maitlis and Prince Andrew, on the subject of the Prince’s relationship with convicted paedophile Jeffrey Epstein. Unfortunately, most recruiters remain average because they are working in volume contingency work where there is no perceived advantage to ‘putting in the work’ on any individual vacancy.
Empathise, really listen, and build on what’s been said: Leigh Sales interviewed Australian cricket legend, Shane Warne in 2018. This was unusual as Warne rarely spoke to non-cricket journalists, suspecting them, often rightly, of headline-hunting. His interview with Sales quickly generated headlines around the country (and in other cricket-playing countries) for the frank confessions Warne made about his past behaviour and the impact that has had on his three children. This interview is rightly famous as a masterclass in empathy and listening. Warne willingly revealed intimate aspects of his psyche because he experienced being fully heard and understood. In an interview after Warne’s 2022 death, Sales (not a cricket fan) named Warne as one of her favourite interview subjects because he was charming and fun. She said, “I cried when he died.” The best recruiters assume nothing about a person they are going to speak to. They prepare, ask excellent rapport-building questions, empathise, and, through their follow-up questions, demonstrate they are really listening. It’s amazing what sort of trust can be built in under an hour when somebody experiences being truly heard.
Pay close attention and follow your natural curiosity: Multi Walkley award-winning Sydney Morning Herald investigative reporter, Kate McClymont, is one of the most decorated journalists in Australia. In 2011, her articles exposed the industrial-scale corruption and fraud that led to the jailing of union boss Michael Williamson and the NSW Cabinet Minister Eddie Obeid. She did this by following her natural curiosity after hearing a Sydney eastern suburbs private school parent wonder, “…how a union boss can have expensive overseas holidays and out-bid everybody at the school auction every year?” Good recruiters ask effective ‘what’ questions, very good recruiters ask many ‘how questions’, and the very best recruiters use ‘why’ questions to powerful effect.
At the front of the room, Sales demonstrated something she did not mention during her talk – a great use of voice and language.
Sales commanded the attention of all in the room, not just because of her well-deserved reputation but because she was powerfully effective at using the right words and vocal variety to convey her message.
If you want to have credibility as a speaker on storytelling, then you’d better hold your audience’s attention for the duration of your presentation – and Leigh Sales did.
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She was brilliant and the parallels between the professions is clear. Very interesting that she agreed (with a questioner) that video interviewing is substantially inferior to IRL interviews and that there are SO many more tells in the f2f interview vs the video interview. A BIG challenge for our industry – convenience over quality.
I couldn’t make the conference this year which was disappointing as I would have been keen to see and hear Leigh’s presentation. Thank you Ross for effectively “putting me in the room with her” thanks to your excellent description of Leigh’s presentation. So much to learn from the parallels of a commercial recruiter and a journalist. The Shane Warne example underlined the power in relaxing and connecting with one’s subject to elicit valuable responses while maintaining professional respect. Her view of online interviewing is absolutely valid but sadly competes with the commercial reality of our industry’s quest for speed of response to clients. Congratulations to the RCSA for providing quality speakers who deliver material of relevance to members.